NCSU Vent Thread (no silver lining in this one) | The Key Play

2022-12-06 16:38:07 By : Ms. May Zhang

Yeah, this one deserves some venting. This loss is 100% on the staff. We are 8 games into the season and we can't line up and run a play. When the HC and his staff are not holding themselves accountable for what is happening on the field a culture is not being established and a program is not being built. We absolutely should not fire Pry, but unless he makes some significant adjustments he's simply continuing the Justin Fuente legacy, albeit in a different way.

We need to hire experienced coordinators, there's gotta be options from G5 atleast

We have a 10-year OC veteran... apparently he took over play calling in the 2nd half.

Edit: And by apparently, I meant based on Burnop saying it on the radio broadcast and it then relayed on twitter. And then there's this:

For what it's worth, a #Hokies spokesman said Brad Glenn did NOT call the plays instead of Tyler Bowen in the second half. There was some Twitter chatter earlier that Mike Burnop had said something to that effect on the air. Apparently that was not the case.— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) October 28, 2022

Who is a Hokies spokesman? I have no idea. Mysterious all around.

Is this just Twitter talk or something someone confirmed?

We scored 21 points in the third...confirmed #science

Burnop apparently said this on the radio broadcast, then early 4th TSL is saying it's not true. But the playcalling was so radically different than anything we've seen from Bowen to start the third, there had to be some sort of change. I'm thinking Glenn called to start the half, we got a big lead, and Pry gave the reins back to Bowen who promptly went back to the same old bs.

If that's what happened: that Pry let Glenn run the plays THEN gave it back to Bowen after that first half....that says he isn't equipped to be a head coach. HOWEVER, we don't know the facts...yet.

I'd doesn't seem humanly possible for the same person to have called the third half as the rest of the game.

Edit. Third quarter, third half. Emotionally, it felt like the third half, so I'm gonna leave it.

uva - the taint of the ACC

This reminds me of my freshman year when I was in the North end zone stands and a girl next to me is on her phone (pre smart phone era) and says to the person on the other line, "There's still 5 minutes left in the 3rd half."

I looked at my roommate and said, "Who wants to tell her?"

The 4th quarter would have been difficult for any playcaller. Most drives started way back. Thomas injured, resulting in (1) no running yards, (2) no threat on play action, and (3) no 2nd most reliable receiver.

It's hard to call a plays when the best catching threat is one-dimensional, all other catching threats are unreliable, the RB doesn't do anything, the QB is inconsistent, Special Teams is giving you bad field position, and keep getting behind the sticks with penalties.

no 2nd most reliable receiver

Unless there's something that I'm missing (which is very possible), I think Daequan Wright has claimed this role. Why he only got 1 target again after the drive where he accounted for 90% of the yardage is beyond me

Wright is definitely the 2nd best and 2nd most serviceable receiver. Getting him more involved would be ideal, but I'm not sure he's reliably that number 2 receiver yet... Wright doesnt yet have a TD catch and hasn't made a big 3rd down catch that I can recall. This is probably just a semantics thing, but until he's targeted more and gets some critical catches, I wouldn't call him reliable. He could rise to that level by the end of the season and I fully expect him to rise to that level in his tenure here.

I would also like to know if that rumor has any merit. And if so - what does it mean? What are the implications? If it's true, is Bowen out?

Isn't that what everyone was evaluating during the Winter? That Pry was hiring some pretty experienced staff who also could recruit? It's sure not looking like it.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: “Guys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

IIRC, the narrative was "veteran coaches but almost all stepping into new roles and we'll have to wait & see on recruiting" except for Rudolph, Price, and Stu Holt. Recruiting was still a ? for all but Price {not great, but you can't question his passion about VT} and Rudolph {objectively good to great OLs at Wisconsin} but Rudolph's recruiting hasn't made any substantial returns yet.

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but Rudolph's recruiting hasn't made any substantial returns yet

And it won't for another 3-4 years because that's how much time it will take for the incoming guys to get to campus, get in shape and get proper development

remember when new S&C was supposed to revamp our entire team in one offseason?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

One off-season, no. 3-4? Hopefully.

You'd be surprised by some of the takes we saw flying around here

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The worst losses are the ones in which there is hope that you'll win. If we're going to lose, I'd rather just get straight-up beaten than to believe for any length of time that we are going to win. This one stings, and it's worse because it was an all-around failure. Offense looked good in the third quarter but was otherwise complete garbage. 1-11 on third down? The penalties? Special teams failures? Defense calling off the pressure? What on earth happened? Everything just went to complete shit. It hurts. I try not to have expectations, and so far that numbness has served me well this year. But to be absolutely cruising, up 21-3, and to blow that?

The most infuriating thing to me was watching blitzers run into the line and PULL UP just before contact instead of making aggressive contact to at least punishing the blocker a little.

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Yeah...I'm kinda over the "culture" shit.

Here's a culture...learn how to snap the ball correctly.

Right now the culture is this: sloppy, undisciplined shit.

First half 8 penalties for 40 yards literally all 5 yard penalties-that's coaching or lack thereof-sad

For real. If we're gonna suck anyway bench guys and play the guy who isn't getting penalties.

I know he doesn't to want to create negativity around penalties but the best way to do that is to not get excessive penalties.

For the record, Alabama is currently #126 in penalties with 8.6 per game. We are #130 with 9.1/game. Guess their coaching staff is sad.

I see a lot of "this is a coaching failure" comments online but nobody really seems to be able to point out what specifically the coaches should be doing differently other than just "coach harder".

I think the reality is that it isn't that simple and most message board warriors don't really know what it takes to fix these problems. Like I tell my 4 year olds when they throw a fit, "crying isn't going to change anything".

Also Tennessee is #110 at 7.7 penalties a game.

While I agree with the spirit of your comment (leg!), what's not captured here is procedural penalties vs in-game penalties. I'd wager that penalties from over-aggression (eg; PI, holding, etc) might be loosely correlated with winning. False starts are definitely more common with losing teams.

I see a lot of "this is a coaching failure" comments online but nobody really seems to be able to point out what specifically the coaches should be doing differently other than just "coach harder".

I just love this comment so much. Could not agree more. If it were such an easy thing to fix, it would have been fixed by now.

In Newman voice "nice game pretty boy"...this sucks

Pry he been pretty accountable about the poor play at times.

Not defending the rest, but I'm not trying to torch our head coach in a year 0 rebuild, cause I definitely sucked at my job the first year I had it.

8 games in, we can't fix much, our oline is terrible, Silas is playing hurt and out of position, and our running backs with some talent can't stay healthy.

Beat UVA, move onto the off-season and wait and see if next year is a dumpster fire before any pitch forks are lit. Dave clawson was also terrible in year 1 at wake....

Win out and we go to a bowl! Not really but it is mathematically possible

I'd love to know if Dave Clawson was terrible because he hadn't gotten his guys in for development or because his team was one of the most undisciplined teams in the country along with the fact that he had no idea how to manage a game. These are significant issues with Pry that continue through 8 games.

How much rotation are we getting on the offensive line? Are the 2's *that* much worse than the 1's that they can never see the field?

Guessing we will find out in November...several players still have redshirts intact and I suspect Pry didn't want to burn the shirt on a guy like Chaplin who might start next year on a dumpster fire season. Think meadows has played one game. After the snapping issues tonight I wonder if we see Jack Hollifield get and run down the stretch at center.

Think TSL did a breakdown and Rudolph was the opposition of Vice and rarely subbed out oline at Wisconsin, but to be fair his olines were good enough they probably didn't need to.

Pretty sure clawson won a natty at Richmond before wake So he earned his stripes. I'm just not convinced pry has the head coach dna. I guess we will find out. But so far he has not created a well-oiled machine.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Yes yes....very true. Technically set up the team that mike London won the title with, so we can thank clawson for the wonderful London years at uva

The gift that kept on giving...

TIL that Wake is Dave Clawson's 4th (!) HC job.

Based on that, I think any comparisons to Pry at this stage in his HC career are quite unfair.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

You should not set your pitchfork on fire.

A million false starts, multiple bad snaps, multiple fumbles on kickoffs, and unnecessarily burning timeouts. Getting torched by a freshman QB. Outside of a couple of big plays, the offense was atrocious.

There's a difference between a lack of talent vs. a lack of coaching. This loss tonight was the latter. I can accept losing because we have inferior talent, I don't want to accept this. I don't care how "overmatched" an OL is, you don't need talent to not false start.

I'm starting to believe Pry is in over his head. Unfortunately, I think he needs to fire Bowen and bring in a veteran OC with head coaching experience. Somebody like Fuente but not Fuente.

Getting torched by a freshman QB

This has been a theme of VT for decades. Freshmen or first year QB'S going off.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Don't forget establish backup QBs.

Looks like I'm starting Friday bourbon early.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Or some random guy they found working out the day before in the gym.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

"But wait! We didn't prepare for THAT guy!"

Apparently, our preparation is very precise.

Don't forget about the upperclassmen backup QBs.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Just to rub salt in the wound. We entered the 4th quarter up 21-10. We proceeded to hold the ball approximately 4:30 and accumulated -9 yards on offense over two possessions (plus the last two downs of the possession in the 3rd quarter). You don't win ball games that way. Nightmare.

I think 1/11 on third down? Yeesh...

I was really excited to be happy about VT football for a night. Instead, I just turned on Burn Notice reruns.

No idea who or what to blame or vent about. It just all sucks.

10 false starts from 9 players. 3 muffs on 2 kickoffs. Every punt miss-hit by Moore. Didn't deserve to win.

Also 5-6 mid-snaps by Jordan Edit: meant to type mis-snap but I like mid-snap better

How about a mid-snap failure....

"Don't go to, go through"

In spite of a lot of those mistakes, we were up 21-3.....which makes it worse imo

With Leary playing we lose this game by four touchdowns.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

They need to lay off the Red Bull; can't think of any other reason for all the penalties while the ball isn't moving

I was in disbelief when the center false started

I kind of understood Kaleb chasing the DB. The two defensive players getting procedure penalties on punts? Every OL getting at least one. Jordan 3 bad snaps at crucial moments. Black with 3 lost balls in two plays (has to be a record). Needing to put the game away, the coaches go right back to their first half game plan.

At least we didn't lose on a last second field goal. And we did stand toe to toe with a team that was considered a favorite to win the Atlantic. Still head scratching madness at the penalties and the 4th qtr. run calls.

We didn't stand toe to toe

"We let em off the hook", as Dennis Green would say. The coaches failed completely

notes aren't any good if they lead to nothing

I needed this laugh....make it plaid

Seriously one of the most annoying things to me. Every time we get a penalty Pry is just writing in his notepad and doesn't even look bothered. For once get in somebodies ass, throw the damn headset, show some damn emotion to show them this is not tolerable

Should he run out on the field before the next snap in that 25 seconds of play clock they have? Not a single procedure penalty lead to a stoppage in play.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

No, but I think that benching the entire starting OL for a time last night would have been a message worth sending, along with a good old fashioned ass chewing on the sidelines:

"We might not win, but goddamit we are at least going to look like we know what the fuck we are doing! If you can't do things you've been taught since peewee, if you can't line up properly and remember the fucking snap count... then my advice to you is to pick a comfortable seat on the bench, because that's your new position on this team!"

But instead, he just claps his hands and doodles on his play sheet...

Im out. I'll probably check in on the uva game because fuck them, but at this point there's no reason to waste any more time on this shitshow. As for next year, I want to see two things: someone other than Bowen calling the plays on offense, and Pry turning over defensive playcalling duties to Marve. He needs to focus 100% on being a head coach, and he can't do that if he's still the acting DC.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch." --unknown

So bench the entire line for who? A bunch of freshmen some of whom are playing that position for the first time?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

So what's your solution? Pat them on the back and tell them it will be better next time?

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch." --unknown

Absolutely, yes. Any lineman who false starts sits the rest of the series, and if we have to play Peter Moore instead of Kaden for a few plays, we do it.

Ah the Fuente fumble route. That was a crowd pleaser.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Fumbles can be a result of dumb luck or precise hits.

Procedural penalties are purely mental.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Missing part of a series (often just 1 or 2 plays, since the penalty so frequently kills the drive) is much different than a multi-game shunning, although if we'd been fumbling a half dozen times a game, he might have been justified.

Uh yes. That is exactly what should happen. We are 2-6 in the midst of a multi year rebuild. Set the MF tone.

Putting players who aren't ready out there to burn their redshirts isn't a leadership style any P5 coach will follow.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

It's not burning anyone's redshirt unless they've already played in a game or you think we're making a bowl game.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

I say we play all hands on deck vs GT since that appears one of the last winnable games on the schedule. See how that game is going and if not well, I am for playing the young talent the next few games if the starters can't rise to the occasion.

VT Marketing Class of 2009 Current Roanoke-Hokie Go Hokies!

That escalated quickly. We went from taking the starters out for a few plays to set the tone in a game we had 10 false starts in to burning redshirts. Quite the leap!

Any lineman that false starts sits out that series

Having this a policy for your team means yes you are burning redshirts before kids are ready. You think Rudolph is keeping players off 1st string who could steal reps already?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

You just take gigantic leaps in your responses. I am almost positive you understand what we are saying and the lesson it provides.

I saw him laying into Jordan, the center, on his way off the field after false starting then bad snapping to kill the drive singlehandedly. So, the cameras may just be missing what you are craving.

He draws a new one for each false start

^^^This one had me laughing 😂 more than the meme itself.

Happy to be the vote that made this plaid. LOL

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance." -Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing." -Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro" -Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Thank you for your service!

Gotta have a culture of winning. Too many older players making mental mistakes, coming from a regime that was okay with losing. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Gonna take some time.

That being said, I was in LalaLand when we were up 21-3. I haven't had that feeling since maybe 2020 when we were whooping NC State at home to open the season. Need to close out games.

Now the false starts...we are 8 games into the season. That's just unacceptable.

I think they are all loaded up on absurd levels of least 11 penalties with the ball not moving

This was me in the 4th quarter. So close and yet still so far away.

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

Lol, after the game, my wife said, "we're going to have to come up with some new words for you to use".

My wife told me I'm not allowed to watch any more Hokie games this year with the kids present... My 4-year-old apparently asked her "what kind of bullshit is that?" when she gave him a plate of sausage and biscuits this morning... apparently he did not want the biscuit.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

You need go talk to your son about his choice of words. What he should've said was "where's the damn gravy?"

I did ask her if he followed it up with a question about gravy, but she said no, he was adamant about having nothing but meat on that plate. He's always a carnivore at breakfast time.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

Im beginning to think this staff is in waaaay over their head.... Pry deserves more than just one year to prove himself, but I have zero expectations going forward. We were never this poorly coached under Beamer or even Fu.

I love this program and I hate to see it in such bad shape. I think it's going to be a ugly several years coming up and I don't think we've got the coaches to turn it around. Hope I am wrong.

I echo your sentiments. Well said.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

We choked ... it's that simple nothing else to say about it-this happened a lot in the early days of Beamer hopefully Pry is around long enough to not repeat this game

I can't comprehend the false start penalties. It's bonkers. It's really not that hard, wait for the correct count and go. I can't figure out how there is a systematic failure with the snap. This is a coaching issue as they need to identify what's going wrong and fix it. There is no talent reason for this issue.

The special teams have been bad all year and getting worse. And Ray Guy watch list punter has been off for 3 games now. This is a talent/depth issue. They need to start playing starters on STs, cause this is bad.

The D front 7 struggles mightily in the 4th. Their stamina is just not there. This is a talent/depth issue.

They don't have the QB or enough playmakers to dig themselves out of holes. This is a talent/depth issue.

The coaches need to better overcome the talent/depth issues or somehow get the talent on campus to make them better coaches. This is a long rebuild, and I don't know whether these coaches are the solution.

I think the false starts are pretty obvious, our oline can't do what is being asked of them. So they are on edge cause they are tired of getting beat, punt team the same. Why our WRs are doing it? I have no clue for that.

I could buy that. It's crazy that it's all the O-line and some WR/TE. How is it that the entire O-line can't do what is asked of them to a point that all of them commit a penalty at some point. And the down and distance doesn't seem to matter either. I'm pretty sure there was a false start on 1st and 10; 2nd and long; 3rd and short.

It's just something I've never seen.

If a coach is asking an entire unit to do something that none of them are capable of doing, that's a coaching problem.

You go to war with the army you have.

And Ray Guy watch list punter has been off for 3 games now.

Yeah what's up with this. I noted it to a friend of mine a few games back, saying that I thought Moore must be hurt or something. He looks like he's declined mid-season.

Would love to see a French review on just special teams. Well, maybe "love" is not the right word, because it would be likely nauseating, but if anyone could make it at least enlightening, it would be French.

I've been watching this and I'm starting to think he's become gun shy about getting punt blocked. There have been some very close calls.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

It looks to me that injury might be at play. His follow through appears significantly shorter like he's punching the ball. What you might see with a back or upper leg injury. Mostly speculation on my part based on my own experience as a HS kicker with back problems.

"Don't go to, go through"

Anyone who wants to complain about the team talent level and placate the coaching staff can fuck off

Those penalties are on coaches.

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. I think it's true that our talent is not good. I think it's also true that these coaches, particularly on offense, have not done a good job putting these players in positions to succeed.

I think the negative reaction was not to the message itself but the manner of delivery.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

In my defense, I was definitely drunk when I posted this.

I'm starting to think that hiring a first time HC, first time DC, and first time OC for a heavy rebuild was not a great idea.

It honestly doesn't seem like anyone knows wtf they are doing.

Just now? People who defended Fuente and Cornelson then turned on them, then defended Pry waiting 100 years to hire a first time OC to turn on him now, why? Why can't we just hold our coaches and administration accountable from the beginning. Before we sign multi year deals. I think twitch could be a better football AD than what we've got.

I could agree with this but I could also play devil's advocate. It isn't like we brought in a few coaches that had zero experience and asked them to take on roles that they hadn't even heard of before. If the head ball coach and the coordinators are all learning their positions on the fly, then maybe the goal is for them to grow together as a trio.

Still, based on the upthread conversation, it seemed like a different ballgame in the third quarter on offense.

This is a bad take, we played the best team on our schedule down till the end and lost by 1 at their stadium. They are a top 20 defense, they are top 10 in forcing turnovers. We scored 21 points against a top 20 defense when we can block anything. That shouldn't happen. Our defense was out there for 13 more minutes than their defense.

We have soon many issues and yet we played the best team on our schedule to 1 point loss. That's way better than being blown out by WVU or Pitt.

They are not the best team on our schedule. They would have been if Leary was still the QB.

Then who is the best team? No other team is close. Our schedule has a bunch of bad teams on it. With Leary they beat us badly sure. But Syracuse and that amazing offense with their genius OC only score 3 more points against them 2 weeks ago and they were in the dome.

I guess Duke is the best team on our schedule if nc state isn't? A Duke team that ranks 85th in total defense and 51st in total offense?

What point are you trying to make? There are a bunch of bad teams on our schedule and we will lose to all of them?

News flash, we are 2-6 and have looked even worse than that getting there. If only losing by a little bit because this particular team didn't have their star quarterback is what you are happy about....

Yes. We made it competitive. That was good. We had flashes. Yes. But the team looks poorly coached - and it hasn't improved. The offsides, bad snaps. That's coaching and it reflects poor preparation. That is my main gripe.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

No "best"team plays an FCS quarterback for a third of the game.

And save too long pass plays to Kaleb Smith--one of which could have easily been called back for offensive pass interference, we did next to nothing on Offense.

And, most of all, neither the offense nor the defense could make plays when the game got close and it really mattered.

This simply isn't a team that's growing or getting better.

I want to see the youth movement in full swing now. If you have eligibility next year, fine you can play. Otherwise, you had your shot and failed. Time to see what the younger guys can do.

We were 13.5 point underdogs. We covered.

NC State team total was 28.5. Under.

VT team total was 10.5. Over.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Beyond tired of making average to below average football players look like studs.

We gave their frosh QB way too much respect with our 2nd half defensive scheme.

They put in a running-threat QB and we contained him extremely well. I was feeling good about our chances.

Then the defense forgot that QBs also pass.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Actually, it was the opposite. They stacked the box and dared NC State to beat them over the top, running Cover 1 and Cover 0. I actually think once VT went up 21-3 they should have made State consistently drive the ball down the field and played zone.

Then, in the fourth, because State basically abandoned the run, The front 7 got gassed rushing the QB. The fact that VT had -4 yards in the 4th quarter tells you all you need to know about how State came back.

And state started max protecting, too which made it more difficult for our blitzes to get home.

It said a lot that Chamari was the only one making tackles at the end there. First and second levels became entirely ineffective

Said it plenty after games whether its a win or a loss. You're not gonna see many, if any, tangible signs of progress this season. You're wasting your time getting all mad and cranky and bitching and moaning about the coaches, the penalties, the talent, all of it and making any grand proclamations about the program from the games this season. This program is going to take time to fix. There's a few people on here that get it and have been pointing out for the last 2 to 3 years where our program was headed. Most of them got ignored or downvoted because people don't like hearing you're gonna be a 3 to 5 win team with no direction. Welp, that time they were talking about 2 to 3 years ago is here now and they were right. It's not a quick fix. And its not one where you've got a fixer upper and in a couple of months, you've got a couple of rooms done. It's a dig a new foundation full scale rebuild. Is Pry the right guy for the job? I don't know. You don't know either. Because its way too early to make any rational judgement. Any coach, whether is a first year HC or Nick Saban would be in the same phase right now, which is basically just evaluating what tools you have for the job. Going back to the house metaphor, the digging hasn't even really started yet and people are complaining that they can't see the frame of the house yet. Just chill. This is a long process.

So I'll end with how I've ended a lot of comments about Hokie football this season. Go into each game with no expectations. If they win, great. Enjoy the night. If they lose? Welp. Turn the TV off, log off the message boards, and find something else to occupy your mind. It's over and done with, move onto the next. You'll be in a much better mood. You want to talk about the direction of the program, progress, or any of that? Save it for this time next year when you should start to see more noticeable steps of progress (but don't be surprised if they aren't big ones)

This. I went in with zero expectations, watched the whole game (as painful as the play was at times), and went to bed falling asleep without any issues. THAT is progress.

Fuente struck me as a tightass who ran a pretty tight ship - and in general I don't think he came across as one of the boys - as evidenced by the crazy number of departures. Pry strikes me as a good ole boy who will (hopefully) bro-bond with players in a way that Beamer did. I think a lot of our success in the future will hinge on pry being able to bring in and keep some studs in the way Fuente couldn't (especially keeping them). That's what I'm waiting to see.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Thank you. Just to add on, I know I'm the guy that predicts 15-0 every year, but if y'all haven't reset your expectations this year, I don't know what to tell you. I guarantee Whit and Pry ain't on here looking for advice on hiring and firing. I'm trying to look at the positives. Kaleb Smith continues to perform far beyond expectations. Delane and Stroman have me optimistic about the future of the secondary. I actually felt this loss, which makes me happy that the last coaching staff didn't completely kill me inside. We had to set at least some kind of program record by one player fumbling three times in two plays (silver lining!)

Finally, I have no idea if Pry is the answer. But I sincerely like the fact that he is someone I want to succeed because of how he's carried himself and interacted with the fan base and media and what he's been saying, not just because he's VT's head coach. He seems like he's trying to do right by us, not just win games (although doing that will start being very necessary in the next couple of years). He's got shit to work on with this team, and he knows it. Time will tell.

Our offensive play calling is absolute dogshit and probably deserves to be reviewed and revisited in the winter.

This was a game we should have won and we absolutely pissed it away. This is the kind of game that genuinely questions whether any progress at all is being made with the program right now.

This is my school This is home

is it basketball season yet? We're entering this season as defending ACC champs, honestly never thought I'd say that about bball

Win or loss, the final score of these games doesn't actually prove anything of much value.

Sure, it's possible they could have won this one, and they should have. This should have been an unexpected win, and I look forward to seeing French's write-up this week.

I wrote this season off a long time ago. I would like to see them beat UVa, though.

Pry needs to go in and defend his job to Whit after the season.

It's Fu's fault the veterans don't know how to win. It's Pry's fault they haven't learned yet.

Honest to god, I don't even care whose, but after a loss like this, this deep into a season like this, somebody's head's gotta roll on principle. Maybe more than one somebody. I'd prefer they be forced to hitchhike to their mama's house from Raleigh, but I'd also accept giving them a week to get out of the NRV.

Fuck college football. Wait, lemme fix that: "Fuck college football" ~VT admin & athletics

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA: MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Whit was the one who signed off on a staff that has a HC/OC/DC with no real experience doing those jobs. Babcock has overseen the implosion of the football program.

"Fuck college football" ~VT admin & athletics

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA: MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Whit is above criticism around here.

Lol. This is so false. Nobody is above criticism. Whit has done pretty well with all non football sports. But he is absolutely responsible for cratering the football program and I don't think anyone here would disagree. I think people have given him a lot of leeway (warranted or not) because of how well other sports are doing. He made a hire in 2016 that was broadly praised inside and outside the program. Then he really fucked up by signing a massive extension way too early and I think Fuente kinda just rested on his laurels after that. Then Whit took way too long (like, 3 years too long, imo) to fire him. I'm not super impressed with the Pry hire yet either. Whit may have made another huge mistake but I don't think we'll know for sure until 2024. For a guy with his track record one must wonder if the whole Fuente debacle was just bad luck or was it a result of Whit just not understanding the football program specifically? Wait and see on Pry, I think. If things don't improve then I think it's fair to say that Whit just doesn't get it. But that would be pretty baffling because of how everything else has gone.

Tl;dr Whit is not above criticism but he has some leeway because of other sports doing well and maybe his one bad hire was just unlucky. If Pry busts we'll know he is a major liability for the football program

What other programs wanted to hire Fuente in 2016? I remember a lot of smoke about how great he was internally and from the media, but I really didn't see any other programs actually interested in him. South Carolina, Georgia and Miami all had openings that year and I can't remember them being linked in any manner.

Plus the hire is demonstrative of my point. We hired a pretty good X's and O's HC in a period where CEO/car salesman types were feasting. We were late to the party with Pry. It feels like we went to the charismatic guy to sell the program in an era where money talks.

But to the original point of this comment, just because you are willing to be objective and criticize does not mean the majority of people are. I can visualize people repeating "In Whit I trust" like a cult.

Pry needs to go in and defend his job to Whit after the season.

I think all he needs to do is show that this year isn't a significant deviation from the path they envisioned when he was hired. I don't think anyone in-house expected a good team this year.

That said, my three expectations for this year were. 1) not being inexplicably conservative on offense wrt down/distance/game state scenarios 2) play better in november than september 3) dont blow any two score fourth quarter leads.

Well -- can't say I've really seen any of that 💁‍♂️ obv still a lot of bad penalties, and we haven't really had late leads to worry about blowing them (but this one we did)

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's what I'm saying, man. This is the same team and staff that blew the ODU game, to a T. I know development isn't always linear, but I'm struggling to see any signs of it, anywhere.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA: MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Your concerns are well-founded. Pry shouldn't get a blank check for the teams performance - they look sloppy as hell - just like they did game 1

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

69 yards of penalties...not nice

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Completely forgot this game was even on last night. Went with my daughter to a high school open house. Guess that was a good thing for me wasn't it?

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

I was traveling that day and also forgot it was on that night.

Saved me some anxiety and a few hours of my time.

I went to bed at the end of the third with the team leading 21-10. I woke up to them losing by a point.

Can anyone tell me why the program isn't in a death spiral?

Depends on what you mean by death spiral, and how you define the end of one.

Won't know for a while, but "Not great, Bob" is how I'd describe the state of the program.

We kinda are. Not enough money, shitty dying conference, no talent, horrible recruiting perception, inexperienced possibly bad coaching staff, and above all else an administration scared or apathetic to make necessary cutthroat moves to elevate the program.

This is kind of where I'm at with the program. People keep saying this rebuild and development of culture will take years, but I frankly don't think I can stomach it, especially considering there are legitimate questions of 1) if this coaching staff can even turn this program around, 2) if the administration is even serious about having a competitive football program (program is in toilet, taking way too long to make decisions/reactive, only now starting to put resources into the program, horrific gameday experiences at Lane), and 3) are we even going to be able to dig ourselves out of this hole given the ACC is dying as you mention and putting its members at a massive financial disadvantage to compete in football. It's just been a series of one terrible decision after another for the last decade plus, too much complacency and unwillingness to do what it takes to maintain a competitive program. At some point, people are going to start checking out and finding other things to do/participate in. And I think it's already started.

I got skewered a month ago for saying we need to prepare for the death of the program as we knew it. Seems like some are starting to see it too

I genuinely believe VT football is as good as dead.

With all of the changes in the NCAA landscape and a coaching + AD combo + donor base that seem to be incapable of keeping up, I think we're done.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Yeah it's not a huffing puffing bitchy way of saying it. We didn't evolve 10-12 years ago, Beamer may have stayed a bit long, and we definitely held on to Fuente too long. So here we are desperately pulling up on the stick of an aircraft that's been nose diving for quite some time.

I want to be wrong but I think Weaver, Beamer, etc. staying around too long began the downhill slide that was accelerated by Fuente's ineptitude. Whit is probably a great AD for a school that doesn't have a DI football program or is more of a basketball/Olympic sports focused school.

I just don't think we have what it takes to be a competitive program anymore, not enough deep-pocketed donors and the alumni + fanbase travel well, but don't donate enough to make up for it.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Officially done with football for this year. Will I catch a few minutes or two of remaining games, yes. But I'm not investing 3-4 hours to watch what essentially amounts to "spring ball" type of play.

It's been a death by 1000 cuts to this program for at least a decade.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

uva - the taint of the ACC

Unfortunately, we don't have the talent now, but we won't in the future either if we don't show signs of improvement. If my son was trying to decide what team to play for, it would be tough to say they are building something good here. We don't look much different now than we did early in the season. Penalties, fumbles, rocketed passes that would be long plays if there was some touch on the ball, no blocking etc, etc.

Eliminate the procedure penalties by snapping on the first sound. The defense will figure it out pretty quickly but we don't seem to block anyone anyway.

What are we clinging to?

Compare the yards we'd lose to predictability to the number of yards we're losing to penalties. The answer may be surprising.

Alright. Who else at least hit on VT(+13.5)?

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My parlay of VT cover, NCST team total under, and VT team total over hit

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Nice. The site I use won't let you parlay bets from the same game for some reason but would have been all over that one. All the lines were based on NCSU with Leary under center.

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I did that sgp on draftkings.

Vegas adjusts their lines based on who's in or out. They really don't think much of us, those lines were based on NCST starting that second string guy. Sometimes they make mistakes and we took advantage.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Fire Bowen. Plain and Simple. He clearly isn't ready to be an OC, even at the low level ball we are playing these days. Bring in a proven college OC and leave it at that. Pry deserves 3 years to get his scheme in place and most important, get kids that fit what he's trying to do. I'm confident in his defensive direction (maybe not all def. coords), but its more promising than anything on offense. We just need to kick the freshman OC out and let him go back to the NFL.

Favorite play that never was - "Hooker with the dime to Pimp...leton."

Or at least give the guy a different role. Keep him in the system if he can add value.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

It seems like, collectively speaking, TKP has similar thoughts about game 8...

It isn't that VT lost a game they were supposed to lose. It isn't that NCSU asserted its will as the better, more talented team (they did a great job in the 4th). It's that the coaching staff seems absolutely clueless. I'm certainly not calling for heads to roll (maybe Bowen after seasons end) as everyone deserves a chance to learn and evolve. But it is a serious concern that the "fixable" issues are still issues 8 games into the season.

It's even more disturbing that this came off a Bye week.

Our "vanilla" offense was as predictable as ever, save about a 10 minute stretch.

The penalties are just inexcusable and the pure number is borderline unfathomable at this point.

The special teams are a complete disaster.

If you aren't openly wondering about the competence of this coaching staff at this point, your optimism is unwavering and unwarranted.

Edit: and then there's the blowing 2 TO in 2nd half so that down one point, you don't have time to even get the ball back. That was a nice touch👌🏼

I'm an ever optimist but this season is testing me in a lot of ways. I'll keep watching I guess but the bars set very very low for hopes the rest of the way that was a let down coming off the by week.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I've always said every football coach has their ceiling. It sucks that it takes the Peter Principle to find out. We'll be finding out what everyone's ceiling is for the next couple years. I just hope moves are made to get people back under their ceiling and bring people in whose ceiling is above P5 football.

I knew we were screwed when we were still up but Thomas got injured, because we wouldn't be able to burn the clock on offense and our defense was starting to become Swiss cheese. With Thomas injured and King MIA, we have zero players who can get a 1st down on three rushes.

I about fell out when Holston got a five yard was the most beautiful thing. /s

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Bryce Duke has shown some ability to hit the line and run north south but that also requires a competent level of running blocking which we don't have.

VT Marketing Class of 2009 Current Roanoke-Hokie Go Hokies!

It's pretty damn dark right now...

well that's kinda the whole point of the quote....

VT Marketing Class of 2009 Current Roanoke-Hokie Go Hokies!

We have much more darkness that we can attain. Like zero wins - that would be an objective descent deeper into the shit.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

nah no thanks, things don't end well for that guy lol

We have yet to see the team play a complete game. Pry has repeatedly said this is an issue. It seems like their point of emphasis each week gets addressed, and then the team finds something else to be bad at. Maybe we are spending too much time on the points of emphasis and not on being well rounded. He mentioned on TTL that they were focusing on turnovers. They would be working on their stopping efforts. You saw that happen in the game. I honestly think part of the reason we've seen our DB's not generate turnovers is that the coaches have focused on tackling. Our tacking has been abysmal the last couple seasons. I think it's been better this year. But, the players are focused on not screwing up the tackle, and they're not making plays on the ball. The emphasis on stops seems to have helped in that regard. The players definitely tried it a few times. You saw attempts to punch out the ball on passes. The defense was decent. But, you can't leave them on the field all game and not expect them to slip at the end.

If someone told me we'd put up 21 unanswered points on someone, I would have laughed. We did. Then we proceeded to flounder and not capitalize. This occurred at the worst time, as the defense had been strung along too much in the first half.

I cannot fathom why we had so many false starts. There had to be something influencing it. Same with two dropped kick offs. How do you drop two in a row?

Except turnovers are statistically mostly luck

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Well, if you're not even remotely trying, you need more luck. We weren't trying until this game.

I personally can't stand another game of Bowen calling the plays. If we are going to have this bad a season anyway, at least open things up and take some shots, play with tempo, and make things hard on the opposing defense. If that was Glenn actually calling plays to start the third, he needs to be made playcaller officially today. Something radically changed there and then changed again around the start of the fourth. Running it up the middle every single time on first down and the conservative/scared playcalling crap is playing like we have something to lose when this season has long been lost. I want to see Pry shake things up and get serious about winning. You can't just be everyone's buddy all the time.

You can't play with tempo if you false start 1/6 of the time

You's just the tempo of a funeral procession.....

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

This right here. I'd be okay with keeping Bowen on staff even, if we think he can contribute, but if that really was Glenn calling plays in the 3rd, that was the best our offense has looked all year and I don't know how you don't hand the reins over to him effective immediately. It was creative, aggressive, up to tempo, and most importantly not chickenshit scared. I think, like you said, it's going to be very important for Pry to make tough moves/decisions like this regarding his staff. This program can't afford to have another head coach who's unwilling to pull the plug on underperforming staff - that was Fuente's mistake. Pry needs to show that he's willing to do it.

Man, wish we hadn't tried to freeze the kicker on that second attempt to end the first half where he pulled it wide right. If we are 0-0 at halftime, we win this one 21-19. /sssssscience

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For the sake of Pry's personal health I'm glad the first one wasn't blocked and returned for a TD only to have it called back because the officials couldn't find their whistle after the HC called a timeout.... too soon?

did he miss that one? In the stadium I couldnt tell

2nd FG was a miss

VT Marketing Class of 2009 Current Roanoke-Hokie Go Hokies!

yeah, he was wide right by like 3-4 feet

Actually, if we were 0-0 at halftime, we'd have been tied at 21 in the 4th. NC State would have just kicked the extra points instead of going for two each time.

College Football Arena - opinions, analysis, and trying to keep college football simple to understand.

I knew there would be at least one. Guess I should be happy there was only one. PAT vs 2pt try analysis

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I have tried to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt this year, but seriously, that was probably the softest playcalling I've seen from us in years. Bowen's playcalling after we went up 21-3 just absolutely boggles the mind. We don't have enough talent to run out the clock against good teams. When you have someone on the ropes, you need to go for the kill. We didn't just let our foot off the gas, we helped them off the mat and made sure they were ok before continuing. Our coaches did not play to win the game yesterday, and for these players and this team, which needs as much positive momentum as possible, that's just inexcusable.

Bowen doesn't need to be calling plays for us ever again. Get someone in here who knows what the fuck it is that you're supposed to do on offense, because its abundantly clear right now it isn't him. He coached us into a loss yesterday, just absolute shit effort on his part.

Defense was plenty fine. We know every week that late in games is going to be rough due to our complete lack of depth, so they did very well to hang on for as long as they did. You just cannot go into that kind of an offensive shell. Not in college football in the year 2022. Opposing teams are too nuanced and too good for that shit nowadays.

This is my school This is home

Did not like us going soft on defense after we got the lead, only rushing four and not putting any pressure on the QB. We have proven that we cannot get pressure with just our front four with any consistency, and he picked us apart after that. Had all the time in the world to throw. Also Pry using 2/3 timeouts and leaving us no way to stop the clock at the end. Also special teams have been atrocious all year and last night was no exception. Last night was a complete coaching failure.

This. (In addition to the turtle offense)

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

this post is like when they unmask the scooby doo villain and it's the "wise old man" who was telling the gang to be patient and wait for the answers the whole time

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I went into this game and heck into the half hoping that we wouldn't give up one of the nations longest scoring streaks against a tenacious ball hawking defense.

The third quarter gave me hope that we can actually put points on the board when it matters and our defense played lights out for the first 2.5 quarters.

Then reality set in, the defense got tired and the offense went back to conservative. This week the coaches need to watch that film closely and realize that there is no downside to letting a gunslinger sling at this point in the season. Our best RB's are both injured, one probably gone for the rest of the season. Let the ball fly.

Regardless I will support the team and try to be optimistic.

But get the damn penalties under control.

I don't know how you can take anything positive out of last night or this year. I don't want to give up on Pry this early when we all know how bare the cupboard was when he got here, but we're going to need an acknowledgement that this level of performance is unacceptable. We're not making progress. We're not developing. We're not improving. Our offense is doing the same sorry shit they've been doing since the ODU game. Our special teams unit is embarrassing. Our defense doesn't have the stamina to play 4 quarters of football (blame this on the offense to an extent for ensuring the defense gets to be on the field for 45 minutes per game). We're getting hammered by penalties every week.

The "talent" excuse only goes so far. Talent is irrelevant for game management, clock management, and false start penalties.

2-10 is a helluva way to start a head coaching career. This loyalty of this fan base in unrivaled but you crank out a double digit loss season and don't make some moves in December to demonstrate your understanding that this is unacceptable, say goodbye to these home sellouts. Holt and Bowen got to go. I'd say Bowen can stay to coach the tight ends, but what have they done that's so special? Wright is legit but I'm beginning to think that's just natural athletic ability, not coaching. I need to see something change or I'm out.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

From what limited attention I have given the games so far this season, the TEs have been a major disappointment. Gallo was a ghost last night and I dont think any TE had their name called in the broadcast. Whatever the reason is, it's on Bowen as both the TE coach and OC. If he's done with being the OC then he's done done since I have only seen regression in the TE department as the season has prolonged.

Dae'Quan Wright has been a lone bright spot this year at TE. Gallo was targeted a few times. Wells threw a terrible ball on one and the NC st defender made a great play to knock down a pop pass to Gallo early in the 3rd that would have gone for big yards.

Went to bed at halftime because it was a snoozefest, surely I didn't miss anything, right?....Right?

1) We got cooked up by a high-3*/low-4* true freshman QB who had only thrown 5 previous passes at NC State, and he didn't even play the whole game. He probably goes for 350+ yards if that happens.

2) Our playcalling sucked, other than that nice stretch in the 3rd quarter. Someone else was definitely calling plays at that point. If VT was an SEC school Bowen would have already been let go or reassigned.

3) The penalties were laughable. This team is either just very undisciplined or has quit. Too many fumbles, bobbles, and horrible snaps too.

BTW our only projected win for the rest of the season is GT...and that wouldn't be a surprising loss at this point lol

A different take on the procedural penalties:

I'm seeing a lot of folks talking about "false starts coming off a bye." As someone that played collegiate football I have never jumped offsides because of something a coach did/didn't do. I have jumped offsides because I was getting beat & was focused getting a step on a DL🧵— Brian Seigla (@Seig5052) October 28, 2022

I have jumped offsides because I had to play snaps I hadn't prepared myself for physically/mentally due to roster depth. I have jumped offsides because the moment was too big for me. I've jumped offsides because I was thinking too much and lost focus. My point is there are a lot— Brian Seigla (@Seig5052) October 28, 2022

How does an OL jump offsides? 🤔

Man says "this isn't on the coaches" then proceeds to list of a bunch of issues the coaches can address during practice.

Getting beat: bad technique, poorly coached, under-prepared, bad scheme Lack of mental/physical preparation: ffs, what are coaches there to do if not prepare the players? Moment too big : again, preparation issue. Lack of focus: sure, that can be on the player. Easier to focus when you're prepared though.

quit making excuses for the staff who has been dealing with these issues since August and hasn't done anything to address them.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

quit making excuses for the staff who has been dealing with these issues since August and hasn't done anything to address them.

One could turn this around and say 'quit making excuses for the players, how hard is it to not jump early'

Reality is that blame is shared between coaches and players (but I get it - coach is ultimately accountable).

Anyways, Just sharing a differing viewpoint with the community. Don't completely buy it, but I think there is some truth to it.

Reality is that blame is shared between coaches and players (but I get it - coach is ultimately accountable).

Agree, but your parenthetical is the key part. It's not that the players have made mistakes. It's that whatever the coaches are doing to hold the players accountable for those mistakes, and whatever they're doing to correct them (in practice, while watching film, and on the sideline during games) isn't working. We're 2/3 of the way through the season and we just gave away a game in which we committed 13 penalties, 10 of which were false starts! Every starting OL had at least one. That's... unfathomable.

Obviously, the players are the only ones on the field when the ball is snapped, but it's up to the coaches to figure out how to fix problems. This has been an issue all season and it seems to be getting worse, not better. THAT is what is on the coaches, IMO.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch." --unknown

If you've ever had a great teacher or coach that brought out the best in you, these issues were exactly what the teacher/coach was addressing. I really think pry is just going the chill route this year to bond with the players. He hasn't shown anger.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

His points are valid at an individual level, but fall apart as you look at it as an issue that has plagued us across the entire line and many games. It is now a trend where one didn't exist before.

The collective is made up of individuals, so still valid.

uva - the taint of the ACC

If one individual is getting whipped, that's on him, if everyone is getting whipped, that's on the coach

On the Oline, if one individual is getting beat, it puts pressure on the whole line. And everyone starts trying to do too much.

Doesn't matter if it's cake or pie as long as it's chocolate.

So much this. We were watching at the bar and literally just had to laugh(to keep from crying) about the false starts. It's almost like we need to have a new drinking game-take a shot every time we have a false start....but then I would worry about making it to halftime without passing out....

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

10 fucking false starts isn't something a pop Warner team does in one game. Laughable, a fucking joke. 10... in one game. That is inexcusable. That's 50 yards for an offense that struggles to manage that in a quarter. We also had a DE jump offsides while nc state was checking out of a fucking play. Are you serious? This stuff MUST be cleaned up. That is the definition of beating yourselves. Several Times in the Fu era we had delay of game penalties AFTER a time out. That's middle school shit

I'm not usually one to throw fuel on the fire, but, uh, DC, our offense is even worse than what you're describing.

Outside the third quarter, we managed 42 yards for the game, including 35 in the first quarter, 11 in the second quarter, and -4 in the fourth quarter. Not only do we struggle to manage 50 yards in a quarter, but we actually didn't manage 50 across three quarters combined.

My morning after hung over without having a drink thoughts:

1. Bowen and Holt are not earning another year. They must go. 2. Danzi and Jordan need to ride the bench. They are not getting the job done. Let youth play. 3. Pry needs to stop mollycoddling players on the sideline when they screw up. Its football not tiddelywinks.

I refuse to become one of the many grumps on here and call for someone else's job when I don't receive immediate satisfaction as spectator of a sport I tie probably too much emotion to, in which I've never coached a day in my life. I saw a better team than the one at the beginning of the season. The dumb penalties are annoying, yes, but comes with the territory of a young team, new coach, new cadence / rhythms, etc. Everybody chill a bit and stop wanting the head coach to cuss out the kids mid-game when they mess up, it doesn't make them better. I'm sure practices are a bit rougher after nights like that.

I turned it off at halftime to watch Game of Thrones. Kept checking the score and saw we were doing well, so after 1.5 episodes I turned the game back on halfway through the 4th.

My bad. Should have just finished the 2nd episode so we would win. I know nothing.

VT Marketing Class of 2009 Current Roanoke-Hokie Go Hokies!

The only reason we scored at all is because we got lucky on the deep ball. This offense is trash all around.

Wells is straight up not good either, even when he does get time he's horribly inaccurate on short and medium passes. He hit the deep ball a couple times but that's like the only thing he's good at and I would hope that we could hit on one or two after how many we've tried this season

It's like he throws every pass likes he a pitcher trying to throw a 100mph fastball by you. I just don't get how someone can be D1 with the arm talent like that and absolutely 0 touch what so ever

Probably why he was a 2* recruit playing at a G5 school and throwing tons of picks there

This. The talk about touch and accuracy preseason seems to be nonsense. Great receivers make the catch, but we don't have great receivers. But good quarterbacks do throw catchable balls.

The fact that we have a vent thread is an improvement this week.

I think what we really learned in the 4th is that this offense is feckless when there is no viable running threat. Thomas is what made that 3rd quarter go so well. And honestly, Thomas is the best player on offense by far as he can be schemed to run, receive, block, be a safety valve, or play-action. Smith is a really talented deep threat, but he's one-dimensional. And I think we've seen enough from Wells to know he's good at the deep ball, an OK running threat, an OK scrambler, poor at reading defenses, and poor at short and intermediate routes.

Without Thomas or King, relying on Wells and Smith to be your offense when they're only good at the deep ball really makes it easy on the defense.

If Thomas and King aren't available, VT needs to find a competent RB and Wells and the WRs need step up their intermediate and short game. And the coaches need to get creative.

Malachi Thomas may have the best hands on the team. I am very impressed with how he plays. I could see him as an all-conference type of player (if he had a decent line in front of him.)

Don't be surprised to see some of the only few bright spots we have to transfer out. Seasons like these in todays age kids don't stick around on a 2 win team they go somewhere else. So while it's nice to give some young guys PT we may just be giving them an audition to ditch us in the off-season. Worried about Malachi and Delane

It really helps that Delane's brother is in love with VT, and they want to play together.

I'd be more concerned about Malachi. Our offense is putrid. He can showcase his talent anywhere else.

His injury history is going to make it hard for top teams to take a flyer on him.

I agree there could be a lot of portal entrants... and they might not all be the ones we want to see exit.

I'm hoping guys like Delane, Malachi, and Wright stick around.

Yes there will be transfers, but I would expect those to either be because of falling down the depth chart, not gelling with the coaches, or other reasons (see Brock Hoffman as an example). Yeah losing sucks, but its not the biggest or only reason out there to jump ship.

The way Pry looks on the sideline is as such, "over his head". The same bland expression and not saying anything does not inspire any confidence in me that he feels comfortable in what he is doing. The look in the eyes somewhat reminds me of Mike London or Willy Taggert. Just kind, o shit why is this so bad, I don't know what to do. I could be wrong but for the limited times I have tuned into a game this year and they pan to him he is just kind of staring out on to the field with a sad puppy dog look in his eyes.

The whole Brad Glenn was calling plays for one quarter is such a ridiculous conspiracy theory. The 3rd quarter was working because that's the way it's supposed to look. We established the run in the first half, then used play-action to create explosive passing plays. That worked because Thomas was a threat as a runner, when he went down there was no more running threat, so not only could we not execute a convincing play-action, but we also couldn't keep drives alive because Holston is not a good running back.

The third facet of this offense (1. run the ball down your throats & 2. use play-action to create explosive pass plays) is using tight ends for underneath routes and as safety valves. Our tight ends are terrible, Gallo can barely catch or run, Wright is a true freshman who can't block yet, Deiuliis doesn't even see the field. Without tight ends or running backs you can't sustain drives. It doesn't help that the receivers also suck, but in this offense that doesn't really matter that much for the situation we found ourselves in in the 4th.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Thomas was a running threat in the first half? Did you watch the same game? He kept being run right up the gut for little to no gain. That doesn't establish an effective play action. What happened was they got Wright more involved in the pass game, played with some tempo, became less predictable (actually passing on first down, wow), and showing some different looks to throw the defense off. You can't tell me you think the whole dismal first half was intentional and part of the plan to set up the 3rd quarter.

And they started letting kaleb run deep routes in 1-1.

No I don't think it was intentional to be dismal, but it was intentional to run a butt ton regardless of results like they've done all year. Thomas got a couple yards and then in the second half that defense is only thinking about run so they can be fooled. Thomas *is* a threat, he had some ok runs. Holston is never a threat.

If you have a problem running it up the gut over and over, blame Pry, not Bowen. Pry hired Bowen and Rudolph to run the offense he wants, which is predicated on running up the middle a lot. They're trying to set the tone this year and train the o-line, mainly the guys who aren't playing yet, to do that. If it's still not working in 24 then I'll start complaining.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Wright was effective because of the play-action though. His 2 catches were off of play action. His 36 yard reception caught the LB sneaking up to stop the run and Wright blasted right by him.

The PI pass to Wright was just a fade though. Caught NCSU in a blitz and a 1 on 1 matchup, so that's good recognition and throw by Wells there.

Looking back at the 3rd quarter, VT ran the ball on first down 6 times and passed the ball on first down 4 times. That's definitely a better balance.

From my assessment, VT had success with the following: play action pass to Wright, deep passes to Smith, and QB runs. (Note: most QB runs were fake hand-offs to Thomas, QB follows, but the 3rd TD was a QB draw)

From my very novice perspective, the big plays were coming from Bowen breaking tendencies. The first half just about every 1st down was a run. 3Q was more evenly split so the defense couldn't just fly downhill every play. We've seen just about all of these plays called in the past, but it's about sequencing the plays to keep the defense off balance. It's mostly been horrible, but I hope whatever caused the third quarter to happen becomes more consistent.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

We were good in the 3rd quarter because we hit on three deep balls.. that's it. 36, 85, 50 that's the yardage of each pass we hit on those drives and literally the only reason we score

Because the play-action was working the way this offense is designed to. Watch Penn State (a hard ask) this is what they do. Go back watch Jahan Dotson vs Wisconsin last year.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Forget about the game last night, think back to last season's bowl game against UMD. We got absolutely destroyed in the bowl game by a very mediocre team. After that bowl game I though, we'd be lucky to win any game the following season. There were no highly ranked prospects who were redshirting or impact players who would be coming back from injury. We were only going to be loosing a couple quality starters from our OL and Blackshear. Sure we'd get a couple transfers, but with the extra covid eligibility year a bunch of players who hadn't had their break yet, were going to fill up roster spots. There were few, if any scholarships for transfers.

Obviously hopes were high with a new staff and new QBs, but the reality is it's the same team that got blown out by UMD. On offense we just don't have the players to win games. To win games you need to be able to put up 30 points in a game on a some what regular basis. We haven't done that once this year and we've played some bad defense. On the bright side though, our defense has theoretically kept us in 6 of the 8 games this year, but if the offense can't stay on the field or score points, the defense is going to wear down.

My biggest concern going forward is recruiting, which was a huge issue for the last guy. The current class is close to being full and doesn't have a single player who I'd say would change our current trajectory. We need more 4star guys, and there's really no way around it. The portal could really be helpful this winter, but if next years recruiting class doesn't see a significant bump, it's going to be a long few years.

Being out on the job for 7/12 of the season has its perks, yessir

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No sustained pass rush. Hard to sustain drives on offense when so many start with 1st and 15. Penalties keep killing us. Better on eliminating turnovers and special teams mistakes.

Simple review of plays 19 - 1st & 10 (or longer with false start penalties) = 13 runs/7 passes. 4 of the passes were during the 3-TD, offensive explosion along with 5 runs. 2 passes were last drives of each half. 1st half - 5 runs/2 passes. All runs by Malachi Thomas, longest 5 yds. Rest were 2 yds or less. Not like we were having success.

3rd down conversions - 4 times; 3 by NCSU penalty, and we actually made one all by ourselves. Embarrassingly bad.

Just stats to back up all the discussion above.

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